Karan Thapar and Sucheta Dalal
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Sucheta Dalal, the Managing Editor of Moneylife and India’s foremost financial journalist, says the 54-page US indictment of Gautam Adani, his nephew Sagar and six other people, for allegedly giving bribes of around $265 million to various Indian government officials for securing power purchasing agreements during the period 2020-2024 is a detailed document which reveals that not only did Gautam Adani fail to inform SEBI and the Indian stock exchange of the FBI raid in March 2023 and the US Department of Justice investigation, which he was required to do, but, thereafter, lied when he denied that either had happened. A Bloomberg story of March 2024 says that the Adani Group told the news agency “we are not aware of any investigation against our chairman.” Dalal says the 54-page US indictment has “established” that the Adani Group paid bribes and was, thus, in breach of America’s Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. “The connection seems, on the face of it, pretty well established,” she said. She was referring to the connection between the Adani Group raising money in America and the claim that they paid bribes in India.
Hello and welcome to a special interview for The Wire. Once again, Gautam Adani and the Adani Group are dominating the news; this time as a result of an indictment in the US accusing them of bribes of more than $250 million to various government officials for securing power purchasing agreements during the period 2020-2022. If proven true, this could devastate Indian business as well as politics.
So today we ask, what exactly are these accusations? What are the details they are based upon? What are the implications for the Adani Group? And indeed, what are the implications for the Indian politicians allegedly involved? And if the Americans have been able to find out so much, what does that suggest about SEBI, who’s been investigating Adani since 2021, but has very little to show for it? And now, what sort of future faces Gautam Adani? Those are some of the issues I should raise today with the managing editor of Money Life and India’s foremost financial journalist, Sucheta Dalal.
Sucheta Dalal, I want to talk to you about the indictment in the US of Gautam Adani, his nephew Sagar and six other people for alleged bribes of around $265 million to various government officials for securing power purchasing agreements during the period 2020-2024. Since this is not just a new, but for many people, an astonishing story, let me start with a few general questions. First of all, what exactly are the charges against Gautam Adani?
Hi, Karan. Thanks for having me on the show. And you’re completely right. On the face of it, most people will wonder what on earth is this about? Because here is a solar company of the government, based in India, and these companies who are supposed to sign power purchase agreements, you know, in various states to buy from an Indian company. So where does the US come into the picture and why the SEC? It’s quite simple, actually. You want to raise money in the US. The US has, what some think, a very puritanical act called Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. And that act says that if you want to raise money in our country, then you have to commit and you have to state and promise repeatedly that I will not pay bribes to obtain any contracts to any other government in any other country. And this act is pretty tough, and has been repeatedly invoked. So this is not the first time that it’s happened. We’ve had other Indian companies that have been in trouble, because bribery and corruption is almost a way of life in India. And the Americans, at least, are intolerant about it when it comes to paying bribes, which affect their investors. So it’s very narrow, you raise money over here, which is what two Adani companies did. And they made all kinds of statements.
So if you’re an investor in India, you will know that you look at a prospectus, it has risk factors, it has statements like, you know, we follow the best corporate governance practices, we have zero tolerance for bribery and corruption. So the Adanis have made these kind of statements under the disclosures that they are supposed to do under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. Now, the US Justice Department and the SEC has found that they have indeed bribed people to get contracts, because there was this solar project, and the cost was just too high. So no state was willing to sign up with it. So they had to give inducements to at least five states, we know Odisha, Chhattisgarh, Tamil Nadu, and the biggest of them were Andhra Pradesh and Jammu and Kashmir. So they had to be induced to sign expensive power purchase agreements with this state company. So the Americans say that if you raise money, and you paid these bribes, which we have got to know about, we are within our rights to prosecute you. And it’s under that, that they have gone after the Adani group.
So in a nutshell, by allegedly paying bribes in India, Adani has breached the FCPA Act in America, as a result of which America has the right to indict and prosecute him. And that is the key reason why he’s now in trouble at the moment.
Absolutely.
Secondly, you’ve read the 54-page indictment. What are the main details of the case against Adani? In other words, what is the outline of what the US Department of Justice and the Securities and Exchange Commission in America have found?
So they’ve done two things. One is a civil case by the Securities and Exchange Commission; one is a criminal case by the US Department of Justice. They are very narrowly focused on the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. So the entire 54 pages is to build a narrative to say, how many people knew about the bribes being paid to establish through emails and documents and, you know, PowerPoint presentations that they’ve got
through a raid that the FBI did last year, they have been able to make. So it’s elaborately building the connections.
Firstly, you raise money and then our investors were misled because you claimed that no bribes were paid. And so it established that. And then it establishes the role of each one of these seven or eight people in the bribe scheme and very directly has established how Gautam Adani and Sagar Adani were personally involved, personally knew about it, how and when they visited the US, what emails they sent. It’s very detailed to identify their role.
You say it’s a very detailed indictment. It’s 54 pages. It runs into something like 140 or 150 paragraphs. When you read it, were you impressed by the nature of the cases putting up?
You know, the point is that it’s a narrow case, right? That you paid bribes, you raise money in the US. And if you read it, it’s very clear that they have established that, that you were raising 600-700 million in the US. At that time, you were paying bribes in India to get those contracts. In the process, you lied to our investors, you made false and misleading statements, you were paying bribes over there, we have established the connections, the connections seem, on the face of it, pretty well established.
Now, in that case, what are the implications for the Adani group? For a start, I presume, it will become a lot more difficult for them to raise money in the West. And given that I’m told 70% of Adani finances are from Western sources, that could be a very serious constraint for them.
Absolutely. So there are two or three things. One is that you’ve already seen the impact within a day. So the Kenyan government has cancelled a couple of big projects, an airport and a power project, $2.5 billion. Adanis themselves have had to cancel a 600 million fundraising. And I think second time that they have postponed it. So fundraising is going to be difficult. And they have been controversial in many countries. So you have an Australian investor who’s come forward and said, I’m going to look very carefully. This is a big investor in several Adani companies.
And he says, “I’m going to look at it.” So you’ve seen the impact because investors are in a panic. This is the second time it’s happened. Last time, it was very easy to sell a narrative that, oh, Hindenburg is a short seller. And they’re lying. They want to make money. This time, it is not a short seller. It is the US government. There is certain credibility attached to what the US Department of Justice does and the SEC does.
So I think you’re going to see a lot more action. So it’s not that the Adani group is not controversial in other countries. There is a controversy in Bangladesh. There is a controversy in Australia. Each of those governments and the people protesting those projects now have a handle to say, look at the details that are here in the US. There is an arrest warrant against the two.
I don’t know how seriously other countries will sort of act on that arrest warrant. But they definitely can’t travel to the US. They definitely can’t raise money in the US. And fundraising is only going to be difficult. You have seen the impact. Look at the way their share prices cracked.
Could this also have implications for other Indian companies that are seeking to raise money in the US? Is there a sense in which perhaps the impression left behind is, let’s be extra careful in particular when it comes to Indian companies, because they all could be guilty of giving bribes which they don’t acknowledge?
Yes and no, in the sense that the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and how stringent it is, is not unknown to Indian listed companies. And those who follow good governance practices are very conscious about it. They’re conscious about the disclosures that they make. It’s not that Indians don’t bribe because the act is in existence. They go through a lot of convoluted routes to hide the trail back to them. And these are cases that I have written about over the last 10 years.
But yes, it’s going to make people doubly careful. But in this case, I would say this group has been a little brazen about it. For instance, it’s not that they didn’t know about it, but they have taken the stand that we can just say everything is baseless, false, malicious, and get away
with it.
Now, against this background, let me come to some of the specifics. The US Department of Justice and the United States Securities Exchange Commission have been working on this case, I believe, for at least 18 months, possibly longer. The indictment reveals that the FBI searched Adani’s nephew Sagar in March 2023, took custody of his electronic devices and served him a subpoena. The search warrant identified offences and conspiracies against Sagar, but also against his
uncle Gautam Adani. Now, the Adani group was required to inform the Indian Stock Exchange of this. Do you believe they did? Or is this the first we’re hearing of it?
Actually, it’s a lot more serious than this. So we read about it. So first, they should have informed Indian Stock Exchanges. There’s no two ways about it. They should have said that there was an FBI raid. And they could have then added their version that, you know, we are confident that we’ll come out clean. That’s the usual stuff that people say. They have not done it. They have not disclosed it. But what is even more sensational in those 54 pages is that in March, Bloomberg wrote an article that the US Department of Justice is looking at bribery charges against the Adani group. They mentioned this company Azure, which is written about. And that’s all documented in great detail in that, in the 54 pages. And what they say is very interesting.
They say that when Bloomberg wrote this article, which was carried by the Economic Times in India, a lot of foreign investors asked questions. They said, “what is this about? What are these bribery charges?” And Sagar Adani has been copied on the messages, where they said very clearly, this is false, baseless, malicious. Then the 54 pages document how emails were sent out by the chief finance officer, in which Sagar Adani is copied, where they told every investor individually, that this story is false, and that these allegations are baseless.
Now look at how our minds are conditioned. You know, I’m a business journalist, and I’m embarrassed to say that that story just fell between the cracks. I mean, that story was out there with details in March last year. And none of us paid attention to it, because each time the Adani group says false, malicious, baseless, we tend to believe it. And we think they have the whole government missionary behind them. So nothing’s going to happen.
So it was actually out there. And now this has another serious implication. If it was reported, not just by Bloomberg, but published by the Economic Times, what did SEBI do about it? I mean, was SEBI also happy to get this one-line press release kind of thing saying false, malicious? Or did they contact the US Justice Department? Did they contact the SEC? Very clearly, both these organisations are quite upset at the lies about the action that they were taking and the FBI did.
Let me just underline for the audience, the two important things you said. One, it is almost absolutely clear that in March 2023, when Sagar was raided by the FBI, the Adani group did not inform the Indian Stock Exchange, which they were required to do that in breach of that requirement. But secondly, when Bloomberg did a story which mentions the Adani company, and that story was picked up by the Economic Times, we don’t know quite how SEBI reacted, because then it was there in print in India for them to see, read and respond to. And it seems that once again, they might have chosen to deliberately ignore it. In other words, the Indian system has also been failing itself. It’s not living up to its requirements.
Absolutely. I mean, it was the duty and the job of the Indian regulator to follow it up. It’s not enough. I mean, everybody can issue a statement saying something about them is false and malicious, and they’ll come out clean. That’s exactly what the Adanis have done again. But they denied that there was even an FBI raid. They denied that there was a US Justice Department investigation, which was ongoing. They were aware of it. And that is fully documented today.
So the question that arises is, it’s okay for me as a journalist to have failed to understand the significance of it. But when you have the Securities and Exchange Board of India, as part of a core committee of the International Organization of Securities Commissions, what on earth was it doing? Has it bothered to follow up and even sent an email to say, “are you guys investigating them? What exactly are you looking at?”
You made a very important point about Adani a moment ago. You said not only did Adani fail to inform the Stock Exchange that he’d been raided and that he was the subject of a US government investigation, but when asked, he denied they were happening. He denied the raid. He denied the investigation. So not only did he not inform, he actually went one step further and lied.
Exactly. And that is what is documented in these 54 pages. So it’s not me saying it, it’s para after para where they are documenting how various people in the group lied, not just him.
Let’s come to a second specific issue. The charge sheet says that the bribes were paid to government officials during the period 2020-2022 in Andhra Pradesh, Odisha, Chhattisgarh, Tamil Nadu and Jammu and Kashmir to secure power purchasing agreements. Doesn’t that point the finger at Jagan Mohan Reddy’s YSR Congress, Naveen Patnaik’s Biju Janta Dal, Rahul Gandhi’s Congress, MK Stalin’s DMK and the central government, which at the time was ruling under president’s rule in Jammu and Kashmir? In other words, five separate state governments comprising five separate political
parties, including the BJP, have been accused. Sambit Patra, when he talks, seems to exclude Jammu and Kashmir and thus exclude the BJP, but it’s very much part of the charge.
Exactly. And any nation has to say, we’re going to investigate it. You know, there has to be an investigation, there has to be a formal investigation. And just about everybody is involved, as you pointed out.
Now, SEBI is a governing board member of what’s called the International Organization of Securities Commission, as is the United States SEC. Would you therefore not expect that the US government or the SEC would share information and details with SEBI? And if they did, what has SEBI done in response? Did they once again ignore what they were being told?
So there are three things here. One is, did they share? We don’t know. But as I pointed out earlier, at least after the Bloomberg article in March 2023, SEBI should have asked. And if SEBI had asked, it’s very clear from these 54 pages that neither SEC nor the US Justice Department would have said no, we are not investigating it, they would have given this information. So the question is, did SEBI ask? Apart from being part of IOSCO and the governing board, SEBI also has a bilateral agreement with the SEC of the US for sharing information. So it’s a step closer. And they 100% ought to have this information, because if they were going ahead with this, there is no doubt they would have shared the information at least a year ago. I doubt that after March, they would have refused.
So there are some people telling me maybe the SEC would have been secretive, but I can’t imagine that would happen because they got in the FBI, they raided the person, they seized, you know, electronic documents and equipment from him. It’s not possible that all these organisations would have said, no, there’s nothing happening there. They would have shared this information. So my guess is that SEBI ought to have this information.
Could it be the case that if information was shared by the SEC in America with SEBI, SEBI chose to deliberately soft pedal its response because one of the states involved is Jammu and Kashmir, where under president’s rule, the party that was effectively in power was the BJP and the central government. Would that be one explanation for why they chose to deliberately soft pedal and not pursue the matter in case it turned out to be embarrassing for the government?
So you know, it’s not just limited to Jammu and Kashmir. All the states had to buy power from the central PSU, solar power, right? And the government made it mandatory that at least 10% has to come from the central PSU. Now, there are people like E.A.S. Sarma, former revenue secretary, and a group of IAS officers who issued a letter yesterday, where they say central government policies on power are responsible for this. You have created an environment where states are forced to not only buy power from the central unit, but also buy coal. And, in fact, they have made a second allegation that, you know, you’ve made coal prices higher. So my point is that central government doesn’t escape
responsibility as easily as just limiting it to Jammu and Kashmir. If these IAS officers are correct, and they ought to know what they’re talking about, and they’ve issued an official press release, then it indicts or it questions the role of the central government more directly.
So there are many questions that can be about the role of the central government, not just limited to Jammu and Kashmir.
I should think so, because they are the policymakers.
But it also does emerge that if the story in the indictment turns out to be true, then several political parties will be affected.
The Congress, the DMK, the Biju Janta, the BJP and the YSR Congress, that would be a political earthquake in India.
Shouldn’t it already be happening? Because it’s already out there, right, that there are five states. And what we have seen, unfortunately, in the last 24 hours is complete silence and denial.
Let me just underline for the audience, the two important things you said. One, it is almost absolutely clear that in March 2023, when Sagar was raided by the FBI, the Adani group did not inform the Indian Stock Exchange, which they were required to do that in breach of that requirement. But secondly, when Bloomberg did a story which mentions the Adani company, and that story was picked up by the Economic Times, we don’t know quite how SEBI reacted, because then it was there in print in India for them to see, read and respond to. And it seems that once again, they might have chosen to deliberately ignore it. In other words, the Indian system has also been failing itself. It’s not living up to its requirements.
Absolutely. I mean, it was the duty and the job of the Indian regulator to follow it up. It’s not enough. I mean, everybody can issue a statement saying something about them is false and malicious, and they’ll come out clean. That’s exactly what the Adanis have done again. But they denied that there was even an FBI raid. They denied that there was a US Justice Department investigation, which was ongoing. They were aware of it. And that is fully documented today.
So the question that arises is, it’s okay for me as a journalist to have failed to understand the significance of it. But when you have the Securities and Exchange Board of India, as part of a core committee of the International Organization of Securities Commissions, what on earth was it doing? Has it bothered to follow up and even sent an email to say, “are you guys investigating them? What exactly are you looking at?”
You made a very important point about Adani a moment ago. You said not only did Adani fail to inform the Stock Exchange that he’d been raided and that he was the subject of a US government investigation, but when asked, he denied they were happening. He denied the raid. He denied the investigation. So not only did he not inform, he actually went one step further and lied.
Exactly. And that is what is documented in these 54 pages. So it’s not me saying it, it’s para after para where they are documenting how various people in the group lied, not just him.
Let’s come to a second specific issue. The charge sheet says that the bribes were paid to government officials during the period 2020-2022 in Andhra Pradesh, Odisha, Chhattisgarh, Tamil Nadu and Jammu and Kashmir to secure power purchasing agreements. Doesn’t that point the finger at Jagan Mohan Reddy’s YSR Congress, Naveen Patnaik’s Biju Janta Dal, Rahul Gandhi’s Congress, MK Stalin’s DMK and the central government, which at the time was ruling under president’s rule in Jammu and Kashmir? In other words, five separate state governments comprising five separate political
parties, including the BJP, have been accused. Sambit Patra, when he talks, seems to exclude Jammu and Kashmir and thus exclude the BJP, but it’s very much part of the charge.
Exactly. And any nation has to say, we’re going to investigate it. You know, there has to be an investigation, there has to be a formal investigation. And just about everybody is involved, as you pointed out.
Now, SEBI is a governing board member of what’s called the International Organization of Securities Commission, as is the United States SEC. Would you therefore not expect that the US government or the SEC would share information and details with SEBI? And if they did, what has SEBI done in response? Did they once again ignore what they were being told?
So there are three things here. One is, did they share? We don’t know. But as I pointed out earlier, at least after the Bloomberg article in March 2023, SEBI should have asked. And if SEBI had asked, it’s very clear from these 54 pages that neither SEC nor the US Justice Department would have said no, we are not investigating it, they would have given this information. So the question is, did SEBI ask? Apart from being part of IOSCO and the governing board, SEBI also has a bilateral agreement with the SEC of the US for sharing information. So it’s a step closer. And they 100% ought to have this information, because if they were going ahead with this, there is no doubt they would have shared the information at least a year ago. I doubt that after March, they would have refused.
So there are some people telling me maybe the SEC would have been secretive, but I can’t imagine that would happen because they got in the FBI, they raided the person, they seized, you know, electronic documents and equipment from him. It’s not possible that all these organisations would have said, no, there’s nothing happening there. They would have shared this information. So my guess is that SEBI ought to have this information.
Could it be the case that if information was shared by the SEC in America with SEBI, SEBI chose to deliberately soft pedal its response because one of the states involved is Jammu and Kashmir, where under president’s rule, the party that was effectively in power was the BJP and the central government. Would that be one explanation for why they chose to deliberately soft pedal and not pursue the matter in case it turned out to be embarrassing for the government?
So you know, it’s not just limited to Jammu and Kashmir. All the states had to buy power from the central PSU, solar power, right? And the government made it mandatory that at least 10% has to come from the central PSU. Now, there are people like E.A.S. Sarma, former revenue secretary, and a group of IAS officers who issued a letter yesterday, where they say central government policies on power are responsible for this. You have created an environment where states are forced to not only buy power from the central unit, but also buy coal. And, in fact, they have made a second allegation that, you know, you’ve made coal prices higher. So my point is that central government doesn’t escape
responsibility as easily as just limiting it to Jammu and Kashmir. If these IAS officers are correct, and they ought to know what they’re talking about, and they’ve issued an official press release, then it indicts or it questions the role of the central government more directly.
So there are many questions that can be about the role of the central government, not just limited to Jammu and Kashmir.
I should think so, because they are the policymakers.
But it also does emerge that if the story in the indictment turns out to be true, then several political parties will be affected.
The Congress, the DMK, the Biju Janta, the BJP and the YSR Congress, that would be a political earthquake in India.
Shouldn’t it already be happening? Because it’s already out there, right, that there are five states. And what we have seen, unfortunately, in the last 24 hours is complete silence and denial.
So, you know, as a citizen, my question is: That because there are five parties involved, will it all get brushed under the carpet? And will Mr Adani get away with again talking about baseless? But I think the action in the US will continue, even though there’s likely to be a change in government. That’s not going to go away so easily. And he’s not going to be able to go to the US or raise money as easily.
As far as I know, one of the political parties, one of the governments that have a finger of suspicion pointing at them, the DMK government in Tamil Nadu has actually, in the shape and form of censored biology, issued a denial to say, we have not been buying any power from Adani during the period referred to. How do you respond to that denial?
You know, all these denials are going to be run through by lawyers, and they’re going to be very technical. So until we get into details about whether they are, you know, talking about a technicality, whether bribes were paid, but they didn’t buy power, I mean, that’s also possible in India. Anything is possible. They could have delayed the actual buying of power. So I wouldn’t be able to analyse the denial unless we have more facts.
As far as I know, one of the political parties, one of the governments that have a finger of suspicion pointing at them, the DMK government in Tamil Nadu has actually, in the shape and form of censored biology, issued a denial to say, we have not been buying any power from Adani during the period referred to. How do you respond to that denial?
You know, all these denials are going to be run through by lawyers, and they’re going to be very technical. So until we get into details about whether they are, you know, talking about a technicality, whether bribes were paid, but they didn’t buy power, I mean, that’s also possible in India. Anything is possible. They could have delayed the actual buying of power. So I wouldn’t be able to analyse the denial unless we have more facts.
Also read: Solar Sector in Crisis: US Bribery Charges Against Adani Group, Azure Power Spark Widespread Concern
Let’s, at this point, Sucheta, broaden our discussion. As the government revealed in the parliament, SEBI has been investigating Adani since 2021, but SEBI has found very little, if anything at all, from their investigations. In contrast, the US Department of Justice and the US Securities and Exchange Commission have found an awful lot of details. Doesn’t the comparison reveal SEBI in a very poor light?
Yes, it does. It’s very embarrassing. Because, you know, one could argue that the foreign corrupt practices investigation is rather narrow. But it’s hard to believe that SEBI, on such a broad investigation, couldn’t even find anything narrow. In fact, if anything, it’s issued a showcase notice to Hindenburg. So, you know, SEBI has not only done nothing, but we have seen leaks that SEBI wants to settle it. You know, it’s as good as saying 23 out of 24 investigations are done. There’s one last one remaining. We have no idea why it’s taking so long. And it’s very clear, since there are no orders, that they’ve not found anything much. And that’s really embarrassing for SEBI from yesterday.
Now, Reuters, in the version story that they put out, have reported that the warrant of arrest has been issued by a US judge against Gautam Adani. You mentioned it and referred to it a moment ago. This clearly means that he cannot travel to
the US. But could it also mean that he can’t travel comfortably and safely to many European countries? Because firstly, they could act on that warrant of arrest. They are all fairly close allies of the Americans. And secondly, they might even choose to extradite him, which is what’s happened in another case from Czechoslovakia to America. So is there a danger that not only is he now going to find it difficult traveling to America, but he might find it very risky to travel to European countries as well?
Yes, the US Justice Department has said that they have sent the warrant to various countries. So there’s always going to be the danger and the risk. But all these charges in the US can be settled on payment of a fat fee, you know, or a fine or whatever, without admitting or denying
guilt. So while the charges are very serious, it’s a very political decision, even in the US.
So if you ask me, there are two aspects. One is that they pursued it to this extent shows that they’re serious about it. But there’s going to be a change in government. So we don’t know how it’s going to be pursued. So whether he gets arrested somewhere else, at the request of the US, I think would be a very political decision.
I come to the impending change of government in America in a moment’s time. But let me first ask you, what are the chances that whilst the Biden administration remains in office, and it’s got just under two months left, that they might seek to extradite Gautam Adani from India?
They are serious, obviously, this action has happened in the fag end after the election. So that means that they are serious, whether they want to go that far and take action, or they want to use it as a bargaining chip, we will never know because it’s politics. So I wouldn’t be able to comment.
Let’s, at this point, Sucheta, broaden our discussion. As the government revealed in the parliament, SEBI has been investigating Adani since 2021, but SEBI has found very little, if anything at all, from their investigations. In contrast, the US Department of Justice and the US Securities and Exchange Commission have found an awful lot of details. Doesn’t the comparison reveal SEBI in a very poor light?
Yes, it does. It’s very embarrassing. Because, you know, one could argue that the foreign corrupt practices investigation is rather narrow. But it’s hard to believe that SEBI, on such a broad investigation, couldn’t even find anything narrow. In fact, if anything, it’s issued a showcase notice to Hindenburg. So, you know, SEBI has not only done nothing, but we have seen leaks that SEBI wants to settle it. You know, it’s as good as saying 23 out of 24 investigations are done. There’s one last one remaining. We have no idea why it’s taking so long. And it’s very clear, since there are no orders, that they’ve not found anything much. And that’s really embarrassing for SEBI from yesterday.
Now, Reuters, in the version story that they put out, have reported that the warrant of arrest has been issued by a US judge against Gautam Adani. You mentioned it and referred to it a moment ago. This clearly means that he cannot travel to
the US. But could it also mean that he can’t travel comfortably and safely to many European countries? Because firstly, they could act on that warrant of arrest. They are all fairly close allies of the Americans. And secondly, they might even choose to extradite him, which is what’s happened in another case from Czechoslovakia to America. So is there a danger that not only is he now going to find it difficult traveling to America, but he might find it very risky to travel to European countries as well?
Yes, the US Justice Department has said that they have sent the warrant to various countries. So there’s always going to be the danger and the risk. But all these charges in the US can be settled on payment of a fat fee, you know, or a fine or whatever, without admitting or denying
guilt. So while the charges are very serious, it’s a very political decision, even in the US.
So if you ask me, there are two aspects. One is that they pursued it to this extent shows that they’re serious about it. But there’s going to be a change in government. So we don’t know how it’s going to be pursued. So whether he gets arrested somewhere else, at the request of the US, I think would be a very political decision.
I come to the impending change of government in America in a moment’s time. But let me first ask you, what are the chances that whilst the Biden administration remains in office, and it’s got just under two months left, that they might seek to extradite Gautam Adani from India?
They are serious, obviously, this action has happened in the fag end after the election. So that means that they are serious, whether they want to go that far and take action, or they want to use it as a bargaining chip, we will never know because it’s politics. So I wouldn’t be able to comment.
Let’s then come to the fact that in just under two months time, the Biden administration will have left office and Trump will have taken over as the new president. Could his attitude be very different in this matter? Could that be a potential lifeline for Gautam Adani?
Not necessarily, you know, because every country is worried about energy, every country is worried about equations that India has with the rest of the world. So I think there’s a lot of factors involved. And I’m sure the Trump administration is going to do what is in their best interest.
Not necessarily, you know, because every country is worried about energy, every country is worried about equations that India has with the rest of the world. So I think there’s a lot of factors involved. And I’m sure the Trump administration is going to do what is in their best interest.
Now, it so happens that Gautam Adani is one of the richest persons in the world. He’s got businesses across the world. So it’s a huge bargaining chip for the Trump administration, isn’t it? And they’re going to use it to their advantage. If it gives them an advantage, they may decide to go soft on some things, but we don’t know what the price will be. And will that price be paid only by Gautam Adani and his group? Or will it be paid by India in order to protect him? We don’t know.
So it’s quite possible that if Gautam Adani chooses to settle by paying a fee or a penalty, he might be required to pay a very, very sizeable sum of money.
So it’s quite possible that if Gautam Adani chooses to settle by paying a fee or a penalty, he might be required to pay a very, very sizeable sum of money.
He would be required to pay a sizable sum of money and whether he’s allowed to settle or not itself will be a subject of a much larger negotiation to my mind. And it won’t be limited to just the justice department and the SEC. It will be a political decision that the US government will take.
Now, as we all know, Gautam Adani is very close to Narendra Modi. In 2014, Mr Modi flew to Delhi to become prime minister in an Adani aircraft. How far can Mr Modi go if he tries to protect Mr Adani?
I’m not a political journalist current, so I would not be able to answer it. I have no idea. But the fact that from March, he got away by denying an investigation that was ongoing is very telling.
He denied it. People were made to believe it. There was this orchestrated thing that, you know, it’s all false and a very clear regulatory action by two very respected entities – the SEC, which is one of the most powerful regulators; and the Department of Justice, which has quite a stellar record if you look at their past indictments.
When they are doing an investigation, they have conducted a raid that he gets away with denying it and calling it completely false and baseless. It is really quite stunning and quite telling.
Would the American system, I’m not talking about any one individual, but would the American system be susceptible to pressure from a country the size of and the strategic importance of India? Could that be a lever that Mr Modi might seek to use to help Mr Adani?
Only if the government throws its weight behind him. Otherwise, why should one business house matter?
So the government would have to exert itself very, very strongly to help Mr Adani. It’s not just simply a quiet word in the air from Mr Modi to Mr Trump.
I think so. If they go out of their way, it has to be from the government.
Finally, and you’ve referred to this many times in your answers during this interview, but the Adani group has issued a statement denying the bribery allegations and calling them baseless. How do you, as a financial journalist who knows Indian industrialists and businessmen better than most, view that statement?
You know, it’s par for the course, they do it all the time. But this time, it really rings hollow because here is a 54-page indictment which para after para explains how and to whom and in what manner they have lied about a simple thing like an ongoing investigation. At that time, there was no indictment, there was an ongoing investigation. So all they had to do is to say, yes, there is an investigation, but even that was denied outright. So I would say that the credibility of this denial is a little iffy now, isn’t it?
Sucheta Dalal, thank you very much for the time and effort and for explaining in simple but easy-to-understand terms, the full background to the Adani story, the implications and what it will mean for the Adani group, and what it will mean for Mr Adani himself.
Now, as we all know, Gautam Adani is very close to Narendra Modi. In 2014, Mr Modi flew to Delhi to become prime minister in an Adani aircraft. How far can Mr Modi go if he tries to protect Mr Adani?
I’m not a political journalist current, so I would not be able to answer it. I have no idea. But the fact that from March, he got away by denying an investigation that was ongoing is very telling.
He denied it. People were made to believe it. There was this orchestrated thing that, you know, it’s all false and a very clear regulatory action by two very respected entities – the SEC, which is one of the most powerful regulators; and the Department of Justice, which has quite a stellar record if you look at their past indictments.
When they are doing an investigation, they have conducted a raid that he gets away with denying it and calling it completely false and baseless. It is really quite stunning and quite telling.
Would the American system, I’m not talking about any one individual, but would the American system be susceptible to pressure from a country the size of and the strategic importance of India? Could that be a lever that Mr Modi might seek to use to help Mr Adani?
Only if the government throws its weight behind him. Otherwise, why should one business house matter?
So the government would have to exert itself very, very strongly to help Mr Adani. It’s not just simply a quiet word in the air from Mr Modi to Mr Trump.
I think so. If they go out of their way, it has to be from the government.
Finally, and you’ve referred to this many times in your answers during this interview, but the Adani group has issued a statement denying the bribery allegations and calling them baseless. How do you, as a financial journalist who knows Indian industrialists and businessmen better than most, view that statement?
You know, it’s par for the course, they do it all the time. But this time, it really rings hollow because here is a 54-page indictment which para after para explains how and to whom and in what manner they have lied about a simple thing like an ongoing investigation. At that time, there was no indictment, there was an ongoing investigation. So all they had to do is to say, yes, there is an investigation, but even that was denied outright. So I would say that the credibility of this denial is a little iffy now, isn’t it?
Sucheta Dalal, thank you very much for the time and effort and for explaining in simple but easy-to-understand terms, the full background to the Adani story, the implications and what it will mean for the Adani group, and what it will mean for Mr Adani himself.
Transcribed by Manya Singh.
