Devanura Mahadeva is a renowned Kannada writer, novelist and one of the founders of Dalita Sangharsha Samiti (DSS), a unique socio-cultural movement in Karnataka working towards the upliftment of Dalits and other marginalised groups. His literary works are known for its unique style and prose as well as subaltern sensibilities. Mahadeva has been honoured with state and national awards including the Sahitya Akademi award and the Padma Shri. However, he returned both the central awards – after the assassination of professor M.M Kalaburgi by right wing forces – as a token of opposition to the Narendra Modi-led Union government and its tacit support to fascistic forces.
His recent non-literary book, an ideological and political critique of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, RSS:The Long and Short Of It, originally written in Kannada, has been well received and translated to more than half a dozen languages including English, Malayalam, Urdu, Telugu, Tamil etc.
In this interview, Mahadeva has broken his decade long silence about the tangled issues around Scheduled Caste (SC) reservation and has taken a firm stand in favour of sub-classification of Dalits.
This solidarity, though belated, has boosted the sub-classification movement in Karnataka, simmering for over three decades, and strengthened the morale of the movement. It is also expected to mount moral pressure on the state government to take suitable action for its implementation.
The Supreme Court has given its verdict in favour of sub-classification of SC and ST communities while granting them reservation. What is your opinion on this?
Devanura Mahadeva: There has been a long struggle over this issue, an ultimate decision on this had to be taken either by the Parliament or the higher constitutional bench of the Supreme Court. When there was no assurance forthcoming from the Parliament, the seven bench Supreme Court gave its judgement favouring the sub-classification with a 6:1 majority, thereby giving a green signal to its implementation. By doing so, it has upheld the constitutional validity of internal reservation for SC communities. We should recognise that behind this lies the pressure created by the three decade-long consistent struggle and the conducive atmosphere it had created, despite its limitations. With this judgement, the inner turmoil within the SC communities has come down. I welcome this verdict.
The SC has mentioned that the issue of creamy layer could also be considered while implementing internal reservation. There is a view that this was not necessary and it is yet another ploy by the Centre to divide the Dalit community. What do you have to say for this?
DM: Remember, the Supreme Court has not given any judgement on creamy layer as such. It only says that while implementing internal reservation, the creamy layer issue may be considered if necessary. There has been no order to the effect. Had there been a judgement on this, we could have fought it. Why should we fight against an imagined opponent? Instead, we should patiently clear up any obstacles that we might face while implementing internal reservation and focus on its proper execution at present.
Your question also implies that this is a tactful move by the Union government to divide the Dalit community based on the observations of a few judges. Had the Supreme Court given a judgement on this, I too would have suspected the same. Since it has not, I do not harbour any doubt. We are getting lost with such questions and answers.
The Chammar community in North India is struggling against internal reservations. What do you suggest?
Yes, this struggle by Chammars in North India might even escalate further. But this is not unexpected. I have talked about this in the past. This kind of discard and protest might extend to the South also.
But, after the Supreme Court’s judgement, the moral demand for internal reservation has become a legal right. It is better if everyone agrees with it.
No one can deny this right or oppose it morally. Those who disagree might ask for what their sub-group wants. Let me reiterate: no one has the right or morals to deny internal reservation for others.
The Congress government in Karnataka had promised to implement internal reservation during recent elections. Now it has gone silent. How do we mount pressure on the government?
You may feel so because you seem to be simplifying the way a government or any establishment functions. Any government, even a family for that matter, while trying to resolve discordances, has to convince everyone involved before implementing a decision. There could be ministers and legislators and other party members who might be against internal reservations. All of them need to be brought together to achieve consensus. Without this exercise, the government may even tumble. We need to understand this and hence bring moral pressure on the government first and simultaneously shape public opinion.
We need not be reactive here. Instead, we should insist on what we need, without getting agitated by what others say. Additionally, we need to intensify our struggle and broaden it further.
After all this, if this government still finds it difficult to implement our demand, then we should keep an eye on the legislators who are responsible for this and create a situation that would make it difficult for them or their heirs to win again. Alongside this, the sub group that wants internal reservation should set up a clear demand: ‘bring in the required legislation first’. This needs a powerful and broad struggle.
Also read: Debate | Untouchability Created the SC List – Opposition to Sub-Classification Can’t Be Dismissed
Some argue that internal reservations would break unity among Dalits, while others believe it would foster unity. What is your perspective on this?
Perhaps, both may be true. It depends on how we conduct ourselves. Some bitterness due to the hatred, envy and mistrust created by the struggle for internal sub-classification earlier still remains. It took a ‘Madar versus Holar’ kind of turn, as if the communities were mutual enemies. As a result, both were thrown out of political representation. Dalits were not made into political untouchables by others; they did it themselves. The unity broke. Though tired, they are trying to come together once again now. At least now no one category of people should argue, “you must say what I want to say and the way I would like to”.
As far as the possibility of retaining unity among Dalits and other depressed communities is concerned, it depends on creating awareness about the need of political representation in all exploited communities. We need to fight for representation in all the fields. We should bring participatory democracy to the fore and demand reservations even in the private sector. One need not raise the touchable vs untouchable issue now. No one, who is within the SC category, should be excluded. If the SCs wake up, develop political conscience and raise their voice collectively by including other oppressed communities, the government will be bound to listen to them. Then the depressed communities will not be deceived from any representation.
There are many struggles to fight for Dalit unity. How can we shape our struggles in this direction now?
I am looking at the experiments of ‘Jangama Collective’ theatre and the perception, expression and thinking of these youngsters. Dakla Devi Katha or Bob Marley from Kodihalli are not just plays; they go beyond the boundaries of theatre. They have created ripples, moving our society and shaking the values of the rulers.
In the past, when the DSS started celebrating Ambedkar’s birth anniversary, keeping his photo in every Dalit colony, it had to face fierce opposition and even oppression. The wounds it inflicted were numerous. But undeterred, the DSS turned the birthday celebration into a movement. What at first appeared as a subversive act became acceptable to others too. What is more, others are also including Ambedkar now. But it took nearly half a decade for this to happen.
Let me come back to Jangama Collective. It is attracting everyone like a magnet. If it took decades for the DSS to make our society humane, for Jangama Collective just one day is enough! It has achieved this leap. The discussions that take place after the performance of its plays are profound. It is as if the entire gathering yearns to liberate from the shackles of unnatural social and cultural values. It is not just Dalits or the depressed communities, but everyone who believes they are ‘superior’ are longing to become more humane.
This is possible because of a wonder called K.P. Lakshman. His world view, his wide-ranging awareness, forging what he has grasped in the stream of life without theorising anything, seems to have shaped his vision. The extraordinary artists with him are also in line with this. Thus, what is happening here is a rare act of Karnataka’s awakened conscience becoming one with the Jangama Collective.
I am striving to express all this because, as the Jangama Collective movement takes steps to unite the entire society, there should be no shortcoming in bringing together all oppressed communities. Perhaps all people’s movements should adopt the cultural vision of the Jangama Collective. I say this with full awareness of my limitations.
Dr. Ravikumar Bhagi is an academic and the editor of Ambedkarvada, a monthly organ of Dalt Sangasrha Samiti.
The original Kannada interview has been translated to English by professor V.S. Sridhar. He is a senior academic and a human rights activist based in Bangalore.