It is no longer unusual to hear of someone, especially from a younger generation, who is undergoing therapy from a mental health professional, which is a big change from some years ago.

The COVID-19 lockdown increased “stress, depression and anxiety for many”, said Maherra Desai, clinical psychologist in Mumbai’s Jaslok Hospital. “Social media too has increased a sense of isolation,” she said during a podcast discussion with Sidharth Bhatia on The Wire Talks.

Desai explains there are many reasons why people seek out therapists – they may be in distress or feel they need help. “They recognise the need for mental health.”

She says not only younger Indians who seek out therapists for themselves but also persuade their elders to do so too. However, India has a need but also a severe shortage of qualified counsellors. “The World Health Organisation recommends three psychiatrists per one lakh population, but India has only 0.75 per lakh,” Desai pointed out.

Below is an edited transcript of Desai's conversation with Bhatia.

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Sidharth Bhatia: Hello, and welcome to The Wire Talks. I'm Sidharth Bhatia. Till not so long ago, there was a stigma attached about going to a professional mental health counsellor. At the very least, it was seen as a sign of emotional, and perhaps, mental weakness. That has changed and very rapidly so, especially among young Indians.

Post-COVID, more and more Indians are seeking out therapy, and what is more, have no compunctions about admitting it. Many of them may also have the support of their parents, though in general – and our guest can look at that – in general, our older generation still may have some inhibitions about it.

This is a major shift and to understand it, I invited Maherra Desai, clinical psychologist at Jaslok Hospital in Mumbai. She's the co-author of The Corona Virus: What you Need to Know About the Global Pandemic. Maherra has had extensive psychological training and at her hospital, she provides assessment and counselling services and she has seen many of these changes in society firsthand.

Maherra Desai, welcome to The Wire Talks.

Maherra Desai: Thank you so much, Mr. Bhatia. It's a pleasure to be with you.

SB: I go strictly by anecdotal evidence, but as a professional, would you say there has been a rise in Indians seeking professional therapy?

MD: Absolutely. We notice that there is a trend that has been, over the past decade, gradually increasing, and more so with COVID coming in and mental health awareness also increasing, that it has even further accelerated the growth of the number of people who are better aware of their mental health and are willing to seek help in case they need it.

SB: You mentioned COVID, why do you think it has happened? Can you tell us from your point of view what you have noticed, but why do you think this has happened?

MD: I'll first elaborate in terms of why it has happened in general. There has been a lot of effort from multiple NGOs, from world organisations, towards destigmatising mental health. Fortunately, people are recognising mental health to be as important as physical health and the awareness has been growing.

What added as a catalyst to the situation was when COVID occurred and everybody’s life together, collectively, went through a major shift. Where we were put under restrictions, multiple people lost their jobs, we were homebound, there was a fear of the illness coming in. Everybody faced circumstances and crisis in a way that they had not before. And that's not to say that that impaired everybody's mental health adversely. There were people who coped and grew even more resilient as a result of that.

But multiple people faced situations that made them feel stuck, and adding to the lockdown restrictions where people were isolated, they also were taken away from their support systems where they could typically share the concerns that were happening. Lots of information, fake news, all of that culminated to an increase in stress, an increase in depression and an increase in anxiety levels.

In fact, the WHO reports that almost there was a 25% increase in stress, depression and anxiety during the first year following COVID where the restrictions and lockdowns were in place worldwide. When multiple people go through such an experience, they become better aware that mental health is important and then they become more willing to seek help for it. And I feel like that in a big way led to a boost in access and awareness for mental health services.

SB: There must have been some people who – of course, it must have increased awareness of mental health – but there would have been  many people who felt something had gone wrong at the end of that entire exercise, at the end of that of that entire period – first, COVID phase one, then COVID phase two – and yet did not know how to put a finger on it. How did they understand that there were solutions or help available? How did they understand that?

MD: I think–I'm not sure if everybody did. I think that's still something that is happening. There is still a long way to go. So the fact that there has been a lot more recognition and awareness is true and we are grateful that that's the situation. However, there's still many more who are waiting to be on that path.

So often what tends to happen is I am going through so much distress that I am willing to seek absolutely anywhere and everywhere where there can be help. Fortunately, COVID forced a lot of us, including mental health professionals, to be able to move online and offer digital services, teleservices, which also then improves access.

During COVID, I remember, I found people from remote corners of the country – places I wasn't even aware of on the map. From a small village in Calcutta reaching out saying, ‘I'm not doing well and I found your number through some social media, through the hospital, and is it possible for us to seek help?’ So the awareness began to grow and the access became easier.

For a lot of people, they don't want to walk into a clinic, saying, ‘You know what … I don't want others to see me in my locality that I'm walking into a mental health clinic’, or ‘I'm walking in to see a professional for’ – in their ways, it would be – ‘for my weakness or my mental problem’. So then online services also offered a degree of anonymity. You can be within the comfort of your home and still access services.

So that's where we started seeing the transition. Though there are still people who struggle to recognise it in themselves but usually, fortunately with our Indian family systems and we live in a collectivistic society, if they do not know where to go, there are people around them who may notice and because the general awareness has increased, they offer, or very often, we find someone else bringing them in for help.

SB: You spoke of isolation, one of the words you used about the COVID period. Two other factors I want to bring up. One is the isolation of the [kind] that you may have moved cities and left your parental home to work in a second city. So therefore, a sense of isolation because it takes a long time to make friends and it takes a long time to even adjust to the pace of this new home of yours – new job, new flat, perhaps sharing. So that's isolation of one kind.

And the second is social media-engendered isolation, where you say, ‘Look at it, everyone seems to have a better life than I do’, for example on Instagram, or ‘Everyone's discussing this and I'm not at all part of it. At least at home, I was with my college friends and we sat and chatted’. Just general examples I'm giving. So have these factors also contributed to–COVID apart, have these factors contributed to a sense of isolation? Because that's a big factor.

MD: Yes, absolutely. How often do we go now to a restaurant and see a group of young kids who are spending more time on their phone than they are chatting with each other? So with the internet coming in and that access increasing drastically, people are more – and let's remind ourselves, all these apps are created in a way to increase user engagement. So they're designed to get you hooked on to them. And with that, the kids today are so used to being on social media that they feel–they struggle to have conversations, communication, and that further increases the loneliness or the feeling of isolation.

And another aspect that happened with COVID was – yes, one was if someone has moved cities, and that is a challenge – but for every person who's living where they always have lived, now suddenly I can't go into school, suddenly that side chat I would have with my friend when the class is going on can't be had because the lectures or the classes are online. So I am cutting out actively. My friends – I can't go and stay and we can't spend time at each other's house because somebody has an older grandparent who the family is worried will contract an illness or someone in–

SB: Wait a minute, wait a minute. Just to interrupt you here. These examples point towards somebody who's 18, 19, 20. So as young as that, is it?

MD: We saw that a lot of people – after the restrictions lifted – we found coming in, struggling to go back to school and feeling quite anxious in the initial phase to reintegrate back into that social setup. Especially during the early teens phase. Because what would have been a natural part of development where you go, you interact with same-aged peers, initially of the same gender, you start exploring – all that communication had come to a halt. And one of the ways that it was instilled was the fear of the illness spreading. So reintegration back in became quite a difficult thing.

And how do people spend their time–especially for the first few months before schools figured we can move online, before work arrangements for a lot of adults moved to work-from-home situations, is people consumed a lot of media. People felt more isolated and those communications got disrupted. So when they had to go back it was a struggle.

SB: You mentioned somebody from a small place outside Calcutta, for example, getting in touch with you after finding your number somewhere or the other, which can only mean one thing: they were seeking out something.

But is there, in your experience – because I believe, at least my experience shows that you are a very busy person, you clearly have a lot of patients if that's the correct word – but in general, from what you have seen, is there a demographic profile of the kind of person who's been looking for therapy? A particular type – young, urban, professional for example, or young, non-urban, or older senior citizens? You mentioned maybe high school kids or early college kids. Is there a general profile you would be able to put together, or it's all kinds?

MD: Maybe slightly nuanced. So pardon me for the length of this answer that it's going to be. In general, I would say there has been an increase across all demographics.

But if I had to look at it in a more nuanced fashion, what we find as a trend is when you're looking at people who are senior citizens are often brought in by the younger kids who have more awareness, urging them to seek help when they notice a concern. That's usually far more severe into the stress levels. So you're seeing them being far more adversely affected by mental health and that's when they are willing to seek help.

With the younger population, especially teens, early 20s, early 30s, we see them now proactively seeking help. They have recognised the importance of mental health and they want to see what they can do in the early phases itself to cope better, hopefully so that they may not need medication, they can help themselves. A lot of them come in saying ‘Broadly everything's okay, just a few issues here and there, but I want to work towards wellness’. ‘I recognise that my anger can be a problem and it's possibly getting me into trouble and can you help me work on that?’

So that's quite a positive shift that we have been seeing where people now want to move from illness or taking care and curing illness, towards wellness and what we can do towards achieving that. That transition shift, we see a lot more openness and seeking behaviour amongst teens, young adults, young professionals as well. And with the older generation, the willingness to seek help with the stigma dropping is higher.

SB: So it's intriguing and interesting you should say that the senior citizens are brought by the younger members of the family. Because clearly the whole thing is upside down, because otherwise the child used to be dragged by their parents to whatever. So that's interesting.

So therefore if I may draw a conclusion from this, is that there is a positive aspect to this idea that ‘Yes, I need help and yes, it is available and yes, I should be open about it’. So that's a positive, would you say?

MD: Absolutely. And there is nothing to hide about it.

So the other interesting shift that we see is now, earlier it would be a profession where typically one mental health professional is referring to another mental health professional. So between school counsellors, psychologists, psychiatrists, we're all referring within, because we have to sometimes convince people that they may need support beyond the services that we could provide and get that in.

But now we find that a lot of the people who come in come referred by friends, referred by family, saying ‘You know what, we had a great experience, we felt like we got much better’. So people are more open to talking about seeking mental health, which means the stigma is dropping and they are the ones who are encouraging and advocating saying, ‘Why don't you go seek help?’

In fact, sometimes with the younger crowd, and this I know not so much from my professional experience but when I talk to family and friends as well, where there's almost a trend saying, ‘I have my therapist and do you have yours? And if not maybe you should go and see one and that's what's going to help.’ More so, of course, this is amongst the urban crowd.

SB: Yeah. Now, are they generally coming for counselling, to seek solutions, or just to talk, or looking for ways to, as you said, improve mental health and addressing wellness before it gets more serious? Or surely there must be people who must be coming because they just find they have no one to turn to.

MD: That is true. All the reasons that you mentioned are true. And the last one, unfortunately, has been becoming even more so prevalent for the younger generation. Because their friendships, their relationships are not as strong anymore, because either they are so overloaded with school and those responsibilities or extracurriculars […] that the playtime which we used to have – where you do nothing and spend time with friends and parents don't know if you've gone down in the society for a couple of hours before you're back – that has minimised in a large way.

So the trust factor, on being able to share comfortably with close friends, has become and is becoming an increasing challenge now. So people are not as comfortable sharing. And some of the home situations are so adverse that they would not want to share it with friends because they don't want the judgment. So they come in seeking a safe space, judgment-free space where they can share and voice their concerns. As a psychologist, we are completely disconnected broadly from the rest of their everyday life. So they feel like I can come and I can talk and that I can give this very unbiased perspective, which is hopefully not preachy.

SB: Yeah, that's a typical thing because that's the one thing that they don't want. But what about young professionals, let's say 25, 28, thereabouts. Are they also seeking out the same things? Because at work now, assuming even if you live with your parents, but assuming you are not, which is more and more happening, that 28-year-old woman, man, whatever, is finding it difficult to talk to anybody in the office, has a terrible boss, colleagues who take all the credit. Just painting a broad-brush picture.

Or their career is doing well, but there is a sense of emptiness or something, who do I turn to to talk? Because we've been discussing school and college students, what about this demographic?

SB: Very similar challenges with a lot more responsibilities now. So at work, like you mentioned, so many high-pressure situations. Usually because the focus has been initially on work and getting your career set, relationships have also become extremely complicated with this hybrid online and in-person, to meet someone organically versus these dating websites – [these] seem to be their own difficult challenge[s] to navigate. Or do we want to go the arranged marriage route? And family pressures for committing? So finding a stable partner, being so busy with work.

The work situation over the past five years has just shown us how dynamic it has been. It's difficult to find jobs. Sometimes, unexpectedly, you're losing jobs. You start realising that all the training you've had so far is probably not going to be sufficient to keep you ongoing on your work. For a lot of IT professionals now, they're trying to refigure how they're going to do it, what they're going to move on to next, what additional supplementary training they need to do. There are financial goals, people want to move out.

With all of these pressures, sometimes it feels very isolating and they have nowhere to turn to, they have no one to talk to. And in these moments also they are seeking help on how to cope. A lot of them sometimes feel very anxious about their situations and hopefully if we can catch them before it becomes a clinical condition, then we can help them cope. Otherwise you're looking at the possibility of medication also being involved to help them in the healing process.

SB: I was researching before our discussion. I just came across this site where it said we've got a roster of counsellors, but it didn't specify what kind, or maybe I didn't look deep enough, and they all seem to be, or most of them seem to be talking also about LGBTQ issues, sexual identity, and things around that. Because that has become a very dynamic or very confusing situation. It's no longer, even 30 years ago, 25 years ago, where you said ‘Man, woman, that's it’. Now it's far more than that. Is that very much on the rise?

MD: There is and I think there is more recognition about it. I think the corporate world is beginning to include a lot more sensitivity and inclusivity there. What we find is not just with the LGBTQIA section, but also with other minority groups, they have been harder hit in these difficult times and they are more vulnerable to develop mental health concerns as well, because they have further additional factors that make them feel misunderstood, face judgment from society.

So, yes, that has been on the rise, I think, for two reasons – the awareness has opened up, so people are more willing to talk about it. And within the corporate culture, although there is a broad openness saying ‘We welcome it and we allow for mental health professionals, who we have on our team, who are going to help address these concerns were you to come and discuss it’. That is there.

However, there is still a hesitation of going and talking about this at the workspace. So sometimes people come in saying, ‘I want to seek help. I get it from my office and they do offer us services, but I do not wish to take it there’, because they're a little uncertain how much the confidentiality is going to stick around and they are still apprehensive and worried that it's going to come back and bite them at work.

Now, that's not in the least to say that that is what the professional out there is going to do, but that's just a reflection of still how unsafe they feel, that although this awareness is there and this it's all on the rise, but they are still feeling excluded and they still feeling discriminated against within these places.

SB: Okay, I'm going to come up with a point which is perhaps you may find that a little devil's advocate. Let's say, another point of view.

MD: Most welcome.

SB: All humans have frailties. Everyone has dilemmas. Many manage these and perhaps it teaches us life lessons.

An older person today might say, ‘We had this problem in our life too, 20, 30, 35 years ago, but we learned to deal with them and we came out stronger. And that's the human condition. So why does my child or why do I need therapy? Because this is life. Life is unfair sometimes. Life has difficult dilemmas. Life is pushing you constantly. And you become a little more resilient in trying to find solutions of various kinds within, without you and all that. So why should I go in for therapy?’

What would you say to that?

MD: I absolutely agree with that perspective. I don't think there is anything wrong in that as an approach.

However – of course, there was going to be a however. Why does someone need therapy? There are times where we go through difficult situations. I'm not saying that every person needs a therapist. Let's please first clarify that. But when I begin to realise that in my effort to go through this situation I am struggling, it's causing me more harm, it's causing me more distress and I am not being able to get out of it despite multiple efforts, despite seeking support from my family: at that point, seeking help from a professional who is guided and trained to help equip me to overcome these circumstances, I see is of no harm.

It's–another way, if I had to put it, is–if you had to take an analogy, and I'm trying to think of one, where let's say for example, I've scratched my arm and I can begin to see that there's an infection. A long time ago, one would say, what's the need to go to a doctor? Just let it stay and it will heal itself. But that wound could get septic and it could run the risk of taking away your life. So the question is that, yes, sure in the beginning you can let it heal. That's probably going to help build your immunity. It's going to make you stronger. But if you begin to realise that it's doing more harm to wait and tough it out than to seek help, then it seems like quite an easy choice.

SB: I wanted to take that a little further. Do you find that a young person or even an older person sharing with somebody close that ‘I've been going to see a therapist and it's beginning to help me cross over and deal with some of the issues that I've been facing’–do you find that there are chances that that person may be ridiculed, or questioned at least?

MD: Questioned, yes. Ridiculed, lesser so nowadays. And that's what I feel the difference of the destigmatisation that has been happening, the increased awareness that has been, happening, has been contributing towards.

If I were to put it, I feel like in a lot of ways, sometimes we're all questioning what the education system today is training us for because of the nature in which the situation is changing and shifting so drastically, that we feel like maybe it's not preparing us in the most optimised ways, which is why a lot of the education systems are going through changes to help us land a job. In fact, a lot of people have been telling me after therapy as feedback saying, ‘If we were taught these things sometimes in school, it would help us manage ourselves so much better. It would help us manage our relationships so much better and understand our emotions so much better, and perhaps we could be even more optimised. We could reach even newer heights for ourselves.’

It is a concept that is being introduced nowadays in schools. Like Delhi has implemented a happiness project, in which it's a part of the curriculum to actually include mental health awareness and helping them cope better, and I think if that can be something that can be provided as a training early on–maybe today we don't have the answer, but I would be quite optimistic to say and certain that ten years, 20 years later, if we compare how resilient those individuals are compared to those who didn't go through the training, we would see significant differences.

SB: But Maherra, happiness is a great goal, is an optimisation goal, but there is sadness in life too.

MD: Absolutely. It’s called the happiness project, but it's not about just being happy. It's about managing ourselves and understanding our mental health and managing the downs better.

SB: I'm just giving you a perspective that I possibly may have felt all these years. […] I'm just saying that you dealt with–of course, things have changed, there was no COVID, there was no cell phone, there was no social media, there was no going away to work somewhere else. Life was a little more structured and perhaps a little less complicated. It had its complications but not these artificial complications. So you fell down, you had a scratch, you coped, and you had a little bit of sadness. Somebody you were infatuated with left the city–it looks like the world has come to an end and you cope with it. So again, I bring up that same point. Is happiness a constant goal?

MD: I do not think happiness is the constant goal. I think that would be a very unrealistic goal if we were to make it one. Because we are, through evolution, wired in a way for experiencing all the human emotions and each one serves its purpose, whether it's sadness, it's jealousy, it's disgust, it's fear: they all help us live better and live more fully.

Does everyone need it? No, I don't think so. Does every person need therapy? And is that what I'm advocating? No, I'm saying we were at one end of stigma and complete ignorance and complete denial of these being concerns of them even being real. If I had to put it as an example, if I got a fracture in my leg and I went to the orthopaedic doctor, no one's going to say, ‘But are you really sure you broke your leg or is it just in your head?’ But when someone walks in even today, a fair share, saying, ‘Doctor, I am not feeling good and I feel like crying and I want to end my life’. That’s after a lot of resistance from the family saying, ‘Just think your way out of it. Come on. You just feel better and you'll be okay’.

SB: Yeah, that's true.

MD: The goal is towards recognising that when there is an issue–My goal is not to say that we have to create an issue when none exists. But when there is an issue, let us acknowledge it. And if there is help available for it that can help you manage the issue better, why not take it? If sometimes they say, right, if you if you get a cold and you take medicine or you don't take medicine, it's going to go away in seven days. Why do we take the medicine in the hope that it's going to help relieve some of the symptoms?

SB: Despite how and what I'm questioning, I must put my own views on record here so that you don't walk away thinking that I'm stuck in a time warp. I think it's a very good idea because it, again, I keep on getting the same message over and over again, that if something can give you help and make you feel not just good about yourself, but good enough to say ‘Okay, that's happening, this is how I cope with it, but life goes on and I must do my other things normally and not let this part affect that part’.

So I do get what you're saying. So lest you have some misunderstanding of any kind, it's my job to ask questions.

MD: You have to think of it from different perspectives. But what for me is the strongest indicator, objectively, of what we are discussing and where the trend seems to be moving towards, are in the numbers. And what's out there. If we look at it in India alone, we are looking at – including online and offline – there was an [inaudible] group report which came out in 2024 and they are predicting the growth of mental health services being utilised in India to be at a rate of about 28% to 30% year on year.

I am reasonably sure no one's going to be spending all that money if there wasn't a need for it, and if there wasn't distress.

If you look at the use of AI as per the report and, in fact, it's funny because a client showed me this recently, where they told me that the second highest use of AI in 2024 was for therapy and that has moved to position one in 2025. People are using AI to seek help and to get that empathetic cure, which means people are feeling unheard and misunderstood and are wanting to do something about it.

SB: Which brings me to my next question. If the need is growing at such a rapid rate, what is the availability of professionals – online, offline, otherwise, because there's always a chance that somebody takes help from somebody online across continents. I know of that and I'm sure you do too.

What are the numbers we are talking about and what are the numbers you think should actually increase to, of the professionals?

MD: So of the professionals, the WHO recommends that you should have three psychiatrists per lakh individuals in the population and their prediction is that is a good proportion to sufficiently at least to be able to address the needs of that population. The reality, and I'm saying this for psychiatrists alone, is there is in India 0.75 psychiatrists per lakh people.

SB: This is psychiatrists?

MD: Psychiatrists. Yes, absolutely. That's four times lesser than what the WHO recommends. That's the reality of India. We have to acknowledge that India has the highest number of suicides as well. Of course, that's a big part because of our population numbers as well. But there is a lack and the same follows for psychologists, for counsellors as well. So there is a huge lack.

You mentioned jokingly about me being busy, but I see this is the trend across all my peers. We are reaching a situation where sometimes we are having to refuse people because it's not there. And that's where I feel like tools like even AI step in for even temporarily filling in some of that gap or to give some amount of help or some amount of guidance wherever possible.

So there are tele-helplines. Even the government of India reported that they had this Tele MANAS helpline that they had activated, I think, in 2022 in response to the whole mental health crisis that had followed after COVID and the lockdowns and the reintegration. And they have found an overwhelming response there.

So I think it's that turning point and hopefully this is going to also get a lot more young people interested in the profession and we should be able to bridge this gap.

SB: In time, because this is quite a low number.

MD: In time, in time. It has been a struggle and I think it is continuing to, but we are in that trend where we are hopefully moving towards filling the needs and the requirements over the next couple of years, I think.

SB: Suppose somebody is out there and is confused – ‘Who should I go to, how should I talk, should I open up completely?’ What advice would you give to somebody who is, you don't know that person is out there. What advice would you give? What is the stage where they should feel comfortable and proceed with trying to find somebody to talk to?

MD: The first place I usually suggest to find someone to talk to is in your immediate friends and family. If there is someone you can trust, if there is someone you can voice your concerns to, I would feel that's a good starting spot. That's a good starting place to begin.

Have a discussion with them. Share with them what your concerns are. Sometimes just talking about your issues allows more clarity and thought, you may find resolution.

The moment you feel it's beginning to impact multiple aspects of your life: it's beginning to emotionally put you in a roller coaster. If you feel like work is getting affected, my relationships are getting affected, multiple avenues are getting affected, it's time that it may be helpful to seek help from a professional.

You could either reach out to a counsellor. So, if you're in school or at work, you could reach out to someone where it's easiest to access. You could reach out to someone online. You could reach out to a psychiatrist. And usually trust that we have enough expertise to guide you to the appropriate professional.

And sometimes, usually for me in the beginning, the conversation when I'm talking to someone before seeing them for the first time, is often, ‘Let's discuss and then even see whether you need me at all or not’. There is no assumption that definitely it's a requirement. If we feel like there isn't a need, then it is our responsibility to also guide you and say ‘Listen, I think things are broadly okay, just sometimes tide it over’. Someone who comes in, like you were mentioning after a heartbreak, you try to go past it because it's understandable for the loss. But if it's been beyond three months, six months, and it's impairing all other parts of your life, maybe some help would do you good.

SB: So finally, you've been practicing this for a while. You mentioned COVID. So COVID must have been the kind of a thing that set off more awareness. But have you had younger clients whom you think you have helped them cope with the situation better? Have you had feedback? Have you seen that person move to a more optimal self-realisation and coping mechanisms?

Of course, it’s difficult to ask a doctor did you help so and so, or a clinical psychologist, but have people given you this feedback to say, ‘It really, really made a difference’.

MD: Hopefully yes, I would like to think so.

SB: No, I do understand, but–

MD: I'll elaborate on that. So it sort of helps. Of course it's our wish and we hope we can help every person we see. The reality is you can't.

In therapy, and since we're talking about this, rapport is super essential. So in fact, if we're struggling to form rapport with someone, I often suggest that they see somebody else for it to be more effective as a process. So before I talk about the fact that it has been effective, it's important to acknowledge that there are times it's not. I would love to be the person to help them bring that change in their life. Sometimes you're not that person. But more often than not, I have seen people and my goal is usually to help them get rid of me at the earliest. That's when my work is the best done.

I feel happy, I feel grateful that I've been able to see people through that journey. Some of them who are no longer seeing me regularly but once in a while drop in a message about how they are doing, how well they are doing, or sometime later in life maybe they'll reconnect years later saying, ‘I've had a bit of an up and down, I just want to perhaps connect once or twice and just get a reset and get my head clear’. And that's what they will connect for. Broadly, at those points in time, we hear about how well they've been doing otherwise, and that's reassuring.

I feel no news is good news in our profession. So sometimes we don't hear from them anymore after they have been doing well.

The duration of therapy can vary from different people. Sometimes from a few sessions to sometimes even a few years is required depending on where their situation is. But fortunately we have been–and to add to that, I would like to say that not just in person, what COVID has really changed as a perspective for me is this is very effective online too.

I have started therapy and we have terminated therapy without ever physically meeting, with great feedback from clients as well. This is my personal experience, which pre-COVID, if you asked me saying ‘See someone online’, I'd be like ‘No, it's not the same as flesh and blood, it has to be in person’. But I was pleasantly surprised and wronged in the fact that it was effective and it continues to stay so. And not just me, all the research indicates that getting therapy online from someone remote where access may be difficult is effective.

In fact, I find staying in the same city, so many young professionals today prefer to do online sessions because they don't want to spend the half an hour, the 45 minutes traveling, or they prefer the anonymity and the comfort of their room to be able to have such a candid discussion.

SB: Despite all this distance consulting … one of the other factors in real life or otherwise has to be cultural context, isn't it? Sometimes you may come across somebody whose cultural context is a bit different. Sure, there are things which are common to all Indians, but suppose there is a person from elsewhere in the country but outside your immediate cultural understanding. Is that a problem?

MD: If there's not enough information about it, it can be a potential issue. So sometimes it's a cultural context, sometimes there's an age barrier. So you'll find people saying, ‘No, I prefer to talk to someone much, much older’ or ‘someone much, much, younger’, because there's a generational difference. So wherever–

SB: There could be a gender factor also.

MD: Gender factor is also there. So there are people who will say, ‘I don't care what gender I'm talking to as long as you understand me’. And for some people they'll begin off saying ‘I would prefer to talk to someone of the same gender’, and that's what helps them establish more comfort and rapport, and then it's what works for you.

While we’re talking about within the same country sometimes we may not understand cultural context. Interestingly, a lot of times because you spoke about people seeing you from overseas, that also happens a fair share, because then they will talk about trying therapy over there and then because of the cultural mismatch of from where the therapist is and someone with a more Indian, more family-oriented background.

Sometimes they're like, ‘Listen, they're just telling me don't talk to your parents and that's okay, and I can't do that’. So they find a bit of a mismatch and then they seek someone in India because they feel like it's more relatable, you can connect. Which brings me back to rapport being important and the understanding of their situation being important.

SB: Yeah, and empathy, of course, which is crucial. Just generally, but I fear that a poorly equipped counsellor can cause harm too. Obviously nobody would want that but to seek out the best possible person is also a challenge.

MD: Yes, it is. It is. Therapy can do harm and that is true. In fact, some of the initial studies showed that it could do harm and so they said if it can do harm, perhaps it can do some good too. And that's where it got explored as a stream as well. So yes, it does have the potential to hurt. It has the potential to harm. In fact, a recent paper said that it changes–discussing your past life events or things from your childhood days, the way you narrate them in therapy and the way the discussion flows can actually alter the memory itself.

Someone who may walk in with thinking about their childhood or a certain incident in their childhood in a relatively neutral way may in the session reprocess it as something far more negative and the way we think about what has happened changes our memory of that situation and the impact it has on us too. So these are things that one is to be aware of, to be warned of, which is why the training, which is why the experience of the therapist is good. But I think that's true for any professional that we seek for any service.

SB: That’s true. That’s true.

I'm really glad we did this, Maherra, because three or four years ago, Dr [Rajesh] Parikh, your colleague from your hospital had told me that COVID is going to create a lot more mental health issues, and I was keen to see how it had flown, and this gives me tremendous amount of perspective on what has happened in these last three or four years, plus where it's heading, plus the great positive aspect of what has come through to me is the destigmatisation, and that itself I think is a victory in the Indian social and cultural milieu.

MD: Absolutely.

SB: Yeah. So thank you very much, Maherra Desai, for helping this layperson see through this entire process. And I hope listeners who tune in and – this remains on various websites for a long time – I hope some people at least listen to it and say, ‘Hey, wait a minute. It's not as bad out there and I can reach out to somebody or the other’. So, thank you, Maherra Desai, for helping us understand the nuances of this very complex and very complicated issue.

MD: Well, thank you so much, Mr Bhatia for having me and it's thanks to the efforts of journalists like you who are spreading the word and reaching it out there. So it's a joint effort on multiple grounds. So yes, thank you so much for having me.

SB: Wonderful. Wonderful.

That was Maherra Desai, clinical psychologist from Jaslok Hospital in Mumbai, who was talking to me about how more and more Indians are seeking out mental health wellness and why this is a good thing.

We'll be back next time with another guest on The Wire Talks. Till then, from me Sidharth Bhatia and the rest of the team, goodbye.

Transcribed by Anya Rajgarhia.

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