In an interview where he three or four times accepts and confirms that Israel is determined to eliminate and obliterate Hamas regardless of the Palestinian civilian death toll and devastation of Gaza, Israel’s former deputy foreign minister has said “The (death toll) numbers are irrelevant to our aim of war.”

In a 35-minute interview with Karan Thapar for The Wire, Danny Ayalon was first asked what he thinks Israel has achieved in this first month of the war. He said, “So far we have just scraped the surface” of the challenge of destroying the huge network of tunnels Hamas has created in Gaza. Asked if he was therefore saying Israel has not achieved very much in the first month, Ayalon answered with a crisp “yes”.

Ayalon predicted that there’s likely to be “hand-to-hand combat” in the days and weeks ahead.

This is a tough and vigorous interview where Ayalon is repeatedly challenged about Israel’s attacks on schools, hospitals, ambulances and refugee camps. He is also toughly questioned about Israel’s attack on the Maghazi camp where, last weekend, 40 were killed. The Maghazi camp is in the allegedly safe evacuation zone where Israel has been telling people to move, yet even when they reach there they are subjected to bombing. This has happened not just in the Maghazi camp but also in Khan Yunis and Rafah.

Ayalon was also questioned about the massive popular protests in London and Washington and many European capitals against Israel’s attack on Palestinians. He dismissed these protests as being largely Muslim. He dismissed the fact that Jewish Voices for Peace were behind the protests in Grand Central Station in New York and the US Congress in Washington. He doesn’t believe these protests will influence Western governments.

Asked about the response in West Asia, where countries like Jordan and Bahrain have withdrawn their ambassadors as has Turkey, Ayalon said this was “grandstanding”. He said Arab countries need Israeli technology and their longer and wider relations with Tel Aviv will not be affected in any significant way by the present Israel-Hamas crisis.

Asked about US secretary of state Antony Blinken’s shuttle diplomacy, Ayalon refused to accept Blinken had been rebuked by Netanyahu or by the Egyptian or Jordanian foreign ministers in Amman.

Asked what he thought Blinken can achieve, Ayalon said his great success is the restraint of Hezbollah and the fact that it will not intervene.

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